Friday, June 5, 2009

Obama's Speech in Cairo

Those of you who are regular readers of my posts and comments know I am not a total fan of everything Obama says or does.

But in this speech I though he was pretty much right on. I read the entire transcript, and you can too here, and was quite impressed. I didn't agree with all of it, but most of it was pretty good. Here are some highlights:

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We meet at a time of great tension between the United States and Muslims around the world—tension rooted in historical forces that go beyond any current policy debate...

Violent extremists have exploited these tensions in a small but potent minority of Muslims. The attacks of September 11, 2001 and the continued efforts of these extremists to engage in violence against civilians has led some in my country to view Islam as inevitably hostile not only to America and Western countries, but also to human rights. All this has bred more fear and more mistrust.

So long as our relationship is defined by our differences, we will empower those who sow hatred rather than peace, those who promote conflict rather than the cooperation that can help all of our people achieve justice and prosperity. And this cycle of suspicion and discord must end.

I do so recognizing that change cannot happen overnight...There must be a sustained effort to listen to each other; to learn from each other; to respect one another; and to seek common ground...That is what I will try to do today—to speak the truth as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the forces that drive us apart.

Now part of this conviction is rooted in my own experience. I’m a Christian, but my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and at the fall of dusk. As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith.

As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam. It was Islam—at places like Al-Azhar—that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities...that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed....

I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second President, John Adams, wrote, “The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims.” And since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States. They have fought in our wars, they have served in our government, they have stood for civil rights, they have started businesses, they have taught at our universities, they’ve excelled in our sports arenas, they’ve won Nobel Prizes, built our tallest building, and lit the Olympic Torch. And when the first Muslim American was recently elected to Congress, he took the oath to defend our Constitution using the same Holy Koran that one of our Founding Fathers—Thomas Jefferson—kept in his personal library...

So I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn’t. And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.

But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire. The United States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known. We were born out of revolution against an empire. We were founded upon the ideal that all are created equal, and we have shed blood and struggled for centuries to give meaning to those words—within our borders, and around the world. We are shaped by every culture, drawn from every end of the Earth, and dedicated to a simple concept: E pluribus unum—“Out of many, one.”

...Moreover, freedom in America is indivisible from the freedom to practice one’s religion. That is why there is a mosque in every state in our union, and over 1,200 mosques within our borders...So let there be no doubt: Islam is a part of America. And I believe that America holds within her the truth that regardless of race, religion, or station in life, all of us share common aspirations—to live in peace and security; to get an education and to work with dignity; to love our families, our communities, and our God. These things we share. This is the hope of all humanity.

In Ankara, I made clear that America is not—and never will be—at war with Islam. We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security—because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children. And it is my first duty as President to protect the American people.

The situation in Afghanistan demonstrates America’s goals, and our need to work together. Over seven years ago, the United States pursued al-Qaida and the Taliban with broad international support. We did not go by choice; we went because of necessity. I’m aware that there’s still some who would question or even justify the events of 9/11. But let us be clear: Al-Qaida killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet al-Qaida chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with.

The second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world.

America’s strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed—more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, it is ignorant, and it is hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction—or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews—is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people—Muslims and Christians—have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they’ve endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations—large and small—that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

For decades then, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It’s easy to point fingers—for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought about by Israel’s founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: The only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security.

That is in Israel’s interest, Palestine’s interest, America’s interest, and the world’s interest. And that is why I intend to personally pursue this outcome with all the patience and dedication that the task requires. (Applause.) The obligations—the obligations that the parties have agreed to under the road map are clear. For peace to come, it is time for them—and all of us—to live up to our responsibilities.

Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America’s founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. It’s a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign neither of courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That’s not how moral authority is claimed; that’s how it is surrendered.
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Obama says the difficult things here. He says that we are not at war with Islam, and that Islam must not be at war with us. We must all confront terrorism.

He calls both sides of the Israel-Palestinian conflict to stop mindlessly killing each other, and that Israel is our ally.

President Obama just gave the best foreign speech since the Cold War.

I just hope he follows through with his promises.

50 comments:

Sandy said...

Hey James - From the talk over at Susannah's blog you know I'm not a big fan of this speech. I will give it an A+ on literary beauty though! You have a nice blog here. I don't agree with you on every point, but don't disagree with you on everything either. And all your points are nicely made.

James' Muse said...

Thanks Sandy. Sorry I misread your statements there btw! I mistook your satire...thanks for stopping by!

Bob said...

I cannot express enough how much Hussein hates and disrespects our country. And he is doing, and will do, anything to destroy our liberties and way of life. He has exposed us to the evils of the world by his posturing as a 'healer' of world problems. By doing that, and reducing our defense spending and programs, we are more open to attack than ever..I will not listen to a word Barack Obama reads off the teleprompter, I will not read a word written about any of Barack Obama's teleprompter readings, I will not read analysis of any statement attributed to Barack Obama. I ran out of time for pathological liberal liars like him

James' Muse said...

Bob, you've got to be kidding me.

Our defense budget has redundancy written all over it, and we still spend money where we shouldn't.

Saying you won't listen to a word is ignorant. You have your opinion and you won't let anything dissuade you, especially the truth.

Grow up.

Shaw Kenawe said...

James,

I thought the speech was courageous and spot on.

He talked about how all the players in this current tense world situation have accountability. But the real message is to acknowledge our mistakes (not just America's but the Middle East's, and Israel's) and work toward a solution to the problems the world faces as a result of neglecting them.

I had a head-to-head over at Susannah's blog on her ill-thought out accusation that Mr. Obama is a traitor and a racist.

She did not back that up with facts, no matter how many times I asked her to.

And the reason is because there is no evidence.

Mr. Obama is not perfect, but he is a magnitude of improvement over the last guy who occupied the White House.

bluepitbull said...

Shaw Kenawe said...

James,

I thought the speech was courageous and spot on.

Of course you do, you're his biggest water carrier in the entire blogosphere.

He talked about how all the players in this current tense world situation have accountability. But the real message is to acknowledge our mistakes (not just America's but the Middle East's, and Israel's) and work toward a solution to the problems the world faces as a result of neglecting them.

Because they've done such a great job in the last thousand or so being great neighbors. All he did was revise history and apologize again before putting the interests of the country he leads first.

I had a head-to-head over at Susannah's blog on her ill-thought out accusation that Mr. Obama is a traitor and a racist.She did not back that up with facts, no matter how many times I asked her to. And the reason is because there is no evidence.

Actually, she answered quite clearly, she just didn't agree with you, which doesn't make her wrong.

obama is most likely a product of his environment. A revolutionary, radical, bill ayers, jeremiah wright, and crazy mom marrying anyone that doesn't take American values seriously. Since all of that is true, we can draw that conclusion. He certainly didn't stop his racist buddy Atty Gen eric (America is a nation of cowards) holder when he dropped the pending case against black panthers intimidating voters by brandishing clubs.

You have no objectivity in any of this. You should seriously consider ceasing to blog and going to work for MSNBC since you are, after all, a writer.

The Jersey Girl said...

Obama sells out America every time he makes a speech.

Dave Miller said...

Jersey Girl, since James posted the whole speech for us to read, can you tell us exactly where in that speech Obama sells out America?

Otherwise your words are just unsubstantiated opinion.

Im Here To Say It said...

Dave Miller said...
"Jersey Girl, since James posted the whole speech for us to read, can you tell us exactly where in that speech Obama sells out America?
Otherwise your words are just unsubstantiated opinion."

I'll answer your wise ass remark to Jersey Girl, who seems to have more brains than YOU and JAMES put together! Just in case Jersey Girl don't get to read you inept, Liberal and Obama apologist comment.


Obama. America was still reeling from the 9/11 terrorist-inflicted carnage on American shores that killed nearly 3000. We were desperately trying to keep Al Qaeda from attacking us again. Far from being a dark and painful time, this was a period of shining American valor, of Americans standing together shoulder to shoulder, of our resolve to make it through with our pride of being Americans and our honor intact. I have never heard where you, Obama, were on that day. Why didn’t you volunteer to go to war against our enemy as thousands of brave American heroes and heroines did? You certainly were of the right age. What did you, as a leader, do to rally people to stand firm? WHY WEREN’T YOU AN AMERICAN HERO? I KNOW! YOU WERE AGAINST GOING TO WAR. It’s comforting to have you as our president now.

And if our government used some “enhanced interrogation techniques,” not torture, to get vital information out of captured enemies, I AM GLAD! And so are millions of American Conservatives and Liberals both. Guess what? These techniques worked. Fully one-half of the information the CIA got that saved America from future attacks were from these supposedly “torture techniques.”

Since then, I have heard the message over and over and over that America Tortures. THIS IS THE MESSAGE GOING OUT TO THE WORLD. To every corner of the earth, to all our enemies, to Al Qaeda, to all the other terrorist groups, to countries that hate us. Don’t think this won’t mobilize them more?

I was taught as a child to respect the office of the president, even if I cannot respect the man filling it. I do respect the office of the president. But the man who tarnishes America to the rest of the world, who gives our foes such a PROPAGANDA BONANZA, who uses party politics to try and hurt the previous administration, not considering American interests — YES, YOU, OBAMA, THE MAN FILLING THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT — YOU SOLD AMERICA OUT TO OUR ENEMIES. SHAME ON HIM!

And he sold out Israel as well..
But he is going to have to learn that Israel is not going to commit suicide to please anyone. But maybe the whole purpose is to make demands that he knows Israel can’t accept so as to have an excuse to cut off their foreign aid and further isolate them. I still believe that Obama is an anti-Semite at heart.
Talking to Netanyahu is NOT like talking to Harry reid or Joe Biden, Netanyahu is not going to take any crap from him, like the kool-aide drinkers here..

Shaw Kenawe said...

bluepitbull typed: "Actually, she answered quite clearly, she just didn't agree with you, which doesn't make her wrong."

Okay. Please paste the evidence she has for saying Mr. Obama is a traitor and a racist. Hard evidence, not her prejudiced opinion.

She told me it was her OPINION. That is not evidence.

You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own facts.

Susannah produced NO facts, just her rightwing opinion, which we take with the proverbial grain of salt.

If I were to accuse you of being a traitor to your country, wouldn't you demand evidence?

Why should Susannah slither out of doing the same?

She has no facts or evidence for that accusation, and she had proved it by not producing it.

IM HERE TO SAY IT:

Dave is among the most gentlemanly commenters in the blogsphere. For you to attack him with you baseless accusation says more about you than him. He is light years smarter, kinder, and better informed than you are.

And you happen to be wrong.

Mr. Obama was not against the Afghan War. Get your facts right before blowing off hot air.

The rest of your worthless rant is nothing but wrong information and calumny against Mr. Obama.

Luckily, you are in the minority, and a majority in this country and the world admire and like Mr. Obama.

You can't handle that truth.

BTW: On MOnday, in Lebanon, the pro-WEstern coalition WON! and defeated Hezbollah. Hezbollah FAILED to win a majority.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for whatever you contributed to that victory for democracy in Lebanon.

bluepitbull said...

Blogger Shaw Kenawe said...
BTW: On MOnday, in Lebanon, the pro-WEstern coalition WON! and defeated Hezbollah. Hezbollah FAILED to win a majority.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for whatever you contributed to that victory for democracy in Lebanon.

What exactly did he contribute to hizbollah being voted out? Oh that's right that's you're opinion. I see you're trying to teach all of us stupid hick conservatives a lesson.

Well, happy starbucks novel writer, let me tell you something about asymmetric warfare:

Hizbollah (and it's spelled many ways before you get all spell-checky again with me) was an insurgent group who was in the legitimate stages of the insurgency. Given the climate of Lebanon, it will go back to the latent/incipient stages, and eventually to the guerrilla warfare stage with arms contributed by another person you're hero obamagod is in bed with, Iran. I predict with certainty that within a year, Lebanon will be the same old place it has been for a long time; a civil war front.

By the way, professional writer shaw, we live in a republic.

bluepitbull said...

And, Susannah did give you facts. But, as usual Shaw, you make the rules as you go. It doesn't work that way.

I also sighted some examples, Shaw, but you chose one thing that I said, which is typical of how you fight, and still got it wrong.

You libs are the same as terrorists. You scream and scream your revolutionary mantras and then when you get in trouble you use the American system as cover. Pick one.

Susannah said...

Hi James, et. al.~
my $0.02 re: sell-out, traitor
"And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear."
What the he#$? No sir, it is not. Were you a good Muslim, perhaps that would be your aim, but you’re not. (Are you?)

“The first issue that we have to confront is violent extremism in all of its forms… I made clear that America is not…at war with Islam. We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security — because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children.”

If that last phrase is true, then why doesn’t he confront ISLAM with their SILENCE? Even ‘moderate’ clerics haven't spoken out publicly against their own extremists. (Find me evidence to the contrary & I’ll reconsider my opinion.) To date, NOT ONE SINGLE publicized account of Islam trying to ‘right’ itself. NOT ONE SINGLE account of this faith 'rejecting the same thing that all faiths reject'. And Mr. O doesn’t even mention this – to such a captive audience????

“Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism—it is an important part of promoting peace.”
ABSOLTUELY FALSE. See note above.

So far, Mr. O’s not doing very well addressing the issues of his own people. Then…

“Let me also address the issue of Iraq…Iraq was a war of choice that provoked strong differences in my country and around the world…I also believe that events in Iraq have reminded America of the need to use diplomacy and build international consensus to resolve our problems whenever possible.”

Let me understand. The COMMANDER In CHIEF of our armed forces stands in front of an audience sympathetic to our ENEMY & says our troops are MISTAKEN in their current engagement?? THIS – THIS makes my blood run cold.

If my boots were standing in the Iraqi desert & I heard my Com-In-Chief say that to people from whence my enemy comes, I would be FURIOUS!!! This, friends, is traitorous behavior.

As for diplomacy, I recall the UN gave Sadaam Hussein weeks & weeks to let inspectors in. The UN would not act on their own resolution. Sadaam Huss broke faith over & over, & the UN was impotent, flaccid, worthless.

Mr. O is saying ‘we must confront evil’, ‘we must use diplomacy’, but then says it was wrong to have done so – when nobody else was willing?

What he is really saying to the people whose culture produces our enemies is that NO ONE will stand up against you…We will not meddle when you can’t reign in your own extremists, even when they kill thousands of our people. We’re in the wrong – WE’RE SORRY for being engaged against terrorism right now. Therefore, proceed as you were… Traitor. God help us.

Susannah said...

As for the racist part: Bluepit, you're off the hook. I'll do my own pasting... ;)

Here's my shockingly disingenuous, dishonest, slithery, right-wing opinion - which we all know cannot possibly have any truth to it whatsoever - but here you go:

"My point – to which I hold FIRMLY – is that Mr. Obama’s representation of the history of the United States of America was dishonest & incredibly manipulative. He took his World-Wide & Egyptian listeners...straight to their worst mental impulse of “lash, whip, slavery, humiliation”. He allowed them to tack it onto the United States of America, w/ no qualifiers whatsoever.

Mr. Obama used the very worst scourge on our history to advance himself & align himself w/ people who hate us. He used this terrible time in our history against his own country.

My friends, that makes him not only disingenuous, dishonest, & the worst kind of racist, but a traitor to his country – and president at that."

He used the terrible racism that supported slavery that we have fought so hard as a nation to overcome, that most of us are terribly sorry ever happened & slammed it right back in our faces. And NO ONE will challenge him, b/c it's not PC to do so - because he's 1/2 black.

I'm challenging him, & I don't care if it's not PC. That mentality is partly why we're in the mess we're in to begin w/. I'm sick to death of it & I won't do it anymore.

He used our history's worst offense against us in order to suck up to the Muslim world; all while barely slapping their wrists for the evil they have sown.

Even if it doesn't fall into the definition of racism that some use, it was incredibly manipulative & dishonest, & he knows it b/c he meant it to be just that.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"You libs are the same as terrorists."--bluepitbull

Really? That statement disqualifies you from ever being taken seriously on any subject--EVER.

That is the single most idiotic statement you've posted, but I imagine you'll top yourself--desperate people always do.

That sort of accusation is typical of the hysterical, out-of-power, minority party.

Some idiot on Susannah's blog actually posted this comment:

"Annie said...
I am serious when I ask this question.....

Could Obama actually be a terrorist sent in to "Nine-Eleven" our entire country from the inside???

I really do wonder...."

I really do wonder about that person's mental stability.


You and your friends, bluepitbull, can't win any discussion on facts, so you and your pals call people you don't agree with "traitors," "racists," and "terrorists."

Susannah gave me NO facts. She said herself that it was her "internal" logic--whatever the hell that means--that Obama was a traitor and racist.

She also wrote this:

"I gave my rationale, which was clear. I'm not giving testimony before Congress. I'm writing my blog. I do believe what he's doing is traitorous (you said treason, not me)."

She didn't know that "traitorous" and "treason" are from the same root word and mean the same. How do you take someone's "opinion" seriously when she doesn't know the meaning of the words she uses?

That was an embarrassing mistake for her to broadcast about herself and showed her lack of knowing the meaning of simple English words.

And "believing" something does NOT make that something FACT.

Lots of people "believe" in flying saucers.

Susannah wrote this: I BASE my opinion on my internal logic & facts (which more than a lot of bloggers I read).

She never shared those internal "facts" with her readers.

Bluepitbull's method of dealing with people he disagree with is to accuse them of being terrorists?

You're nothing but a name-caller, and that's what schoolyard bullies resort to when they have nothing else to back up their threats and intimidations.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Susannah is wrong, AGAIN:

The link will take you to dozens and dozens of sites where Muslims condemn violence.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

We don't see this on the MSM because the MSM DECIDES what makes news, not the Muslim community.

Because it isn't on the teevee doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.



Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks



This page focuses on condemnations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other terrorist incidents since then as well as of terrorism in general. It is not a complete listing of all condemnations written or spoken by Muslims but is intended to provide a representative sample.

It has often been claimed in the media that Muslims are "silent" and do not condemn terrorism. This page is intended to refute that claim. Muslims have not been silent. Not even close. See also How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 for more information about the Muslim response to 9/11. And another listing is at Statements Against Terror. Also Muslim Voices Against Terrorism. Related commentary at Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again , by Juan Cole and The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror by Ali Eteraz.



Muslim Leaders

A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations

American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks

American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism

American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11

Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack

Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say

Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say

British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism

British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders

Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses

Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say

Muslim Reactions to Sept 11

Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations

Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.

Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks

New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism

Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism

Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say

Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism

Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings

U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks

UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'

Susannah,

You still fail the calling Mr. Obama a "traitor" test.

Everything he said in that speech was the TRUTH.

And you can't handle the truth, so you label the president a traitor.

Luckily, only a few people who are twisted by hatred and racism feel that way.

And not the majority of Americans or those in the rest of the civilized world.

You are certainly entitled to you opinion that the President of the United States is a traitor to his country.

Plenty of misguided people thought EXACTLY the same thing about President Lincoln.

I'm guessing you would have been among his detractors as well.

Susannah said...

Thanks for the link about Muslim condemnation of terrorism. I said I'd reconsider & I will.

Doesn't change the fact that our President missed a pristine opportunity to reinforce it, & barely whispered to them.

"We don't see this on the MSM because the MSM DECIDES what makes news..."
It's so refreshing to see someone on the Left actually admit this! ;)

(Never mind the fact that I don't watch MS news anymore b/c of their liberal 'decision' making.)

Thanks James & bye all!

Im Here To Say It said...

Shaw Queen of the Blogging Rules said:
"IM HERE TO SAY IT:

Dave is among the most gentlemanly commenters in the blogsphere. For you to attack him with you baseless accusation says more about you than him. He is light years smarter, kinder, and better informed than you are.
And you happen to be wrong."


Well then Queenie if you say it then it must be true.
Who am I to argue with the Queen?
The Queen who reinforces criticism and rules of the blogisphere!
And heaven forbid I voice my opinion

Im Here To Say It said...

Shaw Kenawe said...
"Susannah is wrong, AGAIN:, Pitt, You are wrong again.. Bob, You are wrong again!"

I am SO sorry, your Holy Highness, This is just my really humble opinion, I really didn't meant to upset you.
Give me 40 lashes. I deserve it. Sorry to be "wrong again"

bluepitbull said...

Shaw Kenawe said...

"You libs are the same as terrorists."--bluepitbull

Really? That statement disqualifies you from ever being taken seriously on any subject--EVER.

Um...you left out the rest of the statement. But, Shaw, that is exactly what I expect from a water carrying, passive-agressive, frustrated professional coffee shop writer. YOU, sir/mam, are the idiot. You're statement:

BTW: On MOnday, in Lebanon, the pro-WEstern coalition WON! and defeated Hezbollah. Hezbollah FAILED to win a majority.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for whatever you contributed to that victory for democracy in Lebanon.

That is THE most idiotic, water carrying statement I've heard. But, I'm sure you'll top it. You have nothing to back anything in that statement at all. To me, propaganda and information warfare are part of insurgent/terrorist groups which further bolsters my comparison. You are a fool. The only way you could get any of you're work viewed at all is to post them on your blog.

So, don't call me an idiot you left wing stooge.

I have no idea who annie is. Talk about a straw man argument. Don't try to group me with others if you don't want to be.

It really got under you're skin, huh? I laugh at you and you're buddies over at you're chump site. You have the dream president in you're opinion who supports all of you're revolutionary BS, and you're still unhappy.

bluepitbull said...

Im Here To Say It said...

Shaw Kenawe said...
"Susannah is wrong, AGAIN:, Pitt, You are wrong again.. Bob, You are wrong again!"

I am SO sorry, your Holy Highness, This is just my really humble opinion, I really didn't meant to upset you.
Give me 40 lashes. I deserve it. Sorry to be "wrong again"


Don't even sarcastically apologize for anything to her/it. They will quote you. Shaw isn't as smart as he/she thinks, but they do know how to quote things.

Funny how shaw bends the rules when they voice opinion, but are quick to point out anything anyone else does.

bluepitbull said...

By the way, before I get attacked for my spelling, I used you're instead of your a few times. I got in a hurry.

Shaw Kenawe said...

As I stated above, bluepitbull, you have no credibility anymore, when you accuse people you don't agree with of being "just like terrorists."

And your weasle words after that statement are just that.

The rest of your messy rant to me is nothing but using my words to suit your ends.

Try thinking your own thoughts instead of using other people's ideas and words.

Perhaps the reason you don't is because you can't.

Sandy said...

I just have to defend Susannah on the traitorous vs treasonous argument. Yeah, they have the same root. Yeah, traitorous CAN be synonomous with treasonous. But actually, the preferred, most common definition of traitor, (the #1 definition in Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language), does not relate to treason but rather to betraying a person, cause, or trust. When accused of saying Obama was guilty of treason, Susannah promptly and succinctly replied that she never said anything about treason. My humble opinion is that she has a greater understanding of the nuances of the word than do others who think that her usage is incorrect and somehow reduces the value of her writing. Quite the opposite appears true to me. In fact, all these comments have been about a foreign policy which is the antithesis of Bush's policy. There are differing opinions about whether that is the right policy or not, but Obama IS betraying Bush's cause(by the most common and preferred definition, that makes him traitorous). But I thought that betraying Bush's causes is what Shaw wants Bush to do. So what's the big deal over this word?

bluepitbull said...

That's your way of getting around answering my question? Saying that I have no credibility? Give me a break. You are too gutless to answer anything directed at you. Instead, you somehow discredit me and say that nothing I say is my own? It's all mine.

What YOU say doesn't belong to you, that how you are able to wax semi-eloquently ever.

If you think what you just said is true; don't post on ANY conservative site ever again.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Sorry, Sandy, but you can't change what the dictionary says, no matter how hard you try to contort the meaning of "traitor." traitorous and treason mean the same thing. A traitor and a treasonous person are one and the same.

Susannah gives us her opinion that Mr. Obama is a traitor. Without facts to back that up, it's just so much hot air, and is meaningless blather.

I could say the exact same thing about her. Susannah is a traitor to her country for maligning our president.

She is being irresponsible and inciting hatred and possibly violence against our duly elected Commander-in-Chief--even to the point that some crazy from the extreme right would do harm to the president because Susannah has accused him of being a traitor to his country.

Words have consequences. I have no problem with her saying she strongly disagrees with him and his policies. She takes it one irrational and insane step further and accuses him of treason.

With NO FACTS TO BACK THAT UP--only her paranoid opinion.

Here are the definitions of "traitor:"


The Free Dictionary (online)

Noun 1. traitor - someone who betrays his country by committing treason
treasonist

collaborationist, quisling, collaborator - someone who collaborates with an enemy occupying force
criminal, crook, felon, malefactor, outlaw - someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime
fifth columnist, saboteur - a member of a clandestine subversive organization who tries to help a potential invader
traitress - female traitor
2. traitor - a person who says one thing and does another
double-crosser, double-dealer, two-timer, betrayer
beguiler, cheater, deceiver, trickster, slicker, cheat - someone who leads you to believe something that is not true

Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: trai·tor

1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty

2 : one who commits treason

Your Dictionary (online)

traitor definition
trai·tor (trāt′ər)

noun

a person who betrays his or her country, cause, friends, etc.; one guilty of treason or treachery
Etymology: ME traitour < OFr traitor < L traditor, one who betrays < traditus, pp. of tradere, to hand over, betray: see treason

Answers online:

Dictionary: trai·tor (trā'tər)

One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

And finally:

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Traitor \Trai"tor\, n. [OE. traitour, OF. tra["i]tor,
tra["i]teur, F. tre[^i]tre, L. traditor, fr. tradere,
traditum, to deliver, to give up or surrender treacherously,
to betray; trans across, over + dare to give. See Date
time, and cf. Betray,Tradition, Traditor, Treason.]
1. One who violates his allegiance and betrays his country;
one guilty of treason; one who, in breach of trust,
delivers his country to an enemy, or yields up any fort or
place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or
body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also,
one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or
one who aids an enemy in conquering his country. See
Treason.


Sandy, you and people like Susannah are so dishonest, you would try to change the meaning of words just to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.

Shame.

There is no excuse for accusing Mr. Obama of treason, except maybe for Susannah's overwhelming hatred for him and her appalling ignorance of the English language.

I Ain't Got No Blog said...

Shaw Kenawe said...
"As I stated above, bluepitbull, you have no credibility anymore,"


And You Do? What a joke that is!
If you would believe anything that you say, the whole friggen world is wring except you!
You think that the wole world revolves around your God and Goddess, Barack and Michelle.
YOU are so arrogant you even beat Oprah.

Thank you Pitbull for putting this for putting this big mouth in her place.

Sandy said...

Shaw, I don't want to argue about this. My whole point is that I don't think Susannah is accusing anyone of treason. Come on. You can argue that traitorous is an inflammatory term but you can't say which definition of that term an author had in mind when using it. And if you can't admit to yourself that there are definitions other than "treasonous" that are acceptable for the term (you just cited them for Heaven's sake), then you are being dishonest and limiting yourself to a one-dimensional use of our language.

Susannah said...

"She is being irresponsible and inciting hatred and possibly violence against our duly elected Commander-in-Chief--even to the point that some crazy from the extreme right would do harm to the president because Susannah has accused him of being a traitor to his country."

AND "except maybe for Susannah's overwhelming hatred for him and her appalling ignorance of the English language."

Alright. Enough.

Shaw, I've taken your comments as long as I possibly can. You, friend, are a stark raving lunatic.

Whatever I say, it's backed up w/ logic & thoughtful consideration; heavy on opinion. It's still a free country, sister, where opinions are everywhere! You disagree. Fine. But - you can't simply disagree, or let others disagree. You lambaste & slander other people w/ wild abandon.

You have attempted to silence me w/ your designed-to-intimidate language. Twice or thrice you've attempted to shut me up w/ your 'shame'. Your comments speak for themselves & sadly you don't even realize it. There IS no discussion or reasoning or logical debate w/ you.

Nothing you say (except for the nice exchange about the poem @ your blog & the muslim link today) serves any purpose except slandering everyone who so much as makes a peep against your messiah.

This is the second time you've gone so far in your delusion of Obamagrandeur as to accuse me of trying to incite violence against the president. WT___?? (Excuse me.)

I never even thought the word HATE, much less used it. I never came CLOSE to inciting violence against ANYBODY! I don't use profane language, but Shaw your comments reveal a leftist, maniacal, obama-deluded nut-case.

I have allowed it on my blog, for the sake of courtesy. But no more. When it happens again, I'll not stand for it. Courtesy or no.

Sorry James, for using this space in such a manner. I hope you'll forgive it. Sorry others to subject you to such.

I'm disconnecting from this thread b/c I have a life to live (unlike others, apparently) & I've just had enough.

I will not be back here, but I will continue to speak - freely & loudly.

I Ain't Got No Blog said...

Susannah said...


Alright. Enough.

Shaw, I've taken your comments as long as I possibly can. You, friend, are a stark raving lunatic.


AMEN...THANK YOU

bluepitbull said...

So maybe it isn't just me that feels that way?

Shaw, your language got the best of you.

Throwing Stones said...

I think I just fell in love with Susannah ...

Shaw Kenawe said...

It is an amazing thing to read a woman, who called the President of the United States a TRAITOR and a RACIST, and offered no evidence except her "internal logic," become indignant because I won't let her get away with her malicious slander.

It is outrageous and indicative of the foul dishonesty and, I will add, derangement of the righwing of the Republican Party.

Susannah would NOT provide proof to back up her libelous and calumnous accusations against the president and sets herself up as a VICTIM when challenged to defend her accusations.

She thinks that calling the President of the United States a TRAITOR and a RACIST is a disagreement and that I'm hounding her over a disagreement?


She claims I want to shut her up when I've practically BEGGED her to give me the facts upon which she bases her libel against the president.

Susannah is too naive or uninformed to realize that labeling someone a traitor is asking some nut to do harm, since a misguided nut would think it his or her patriotic duty to rid the country of a traitor.

But she didn't use the word "hate," she innocently claims, just "traitor" and "racist," which are lovely terms to throw at people, no?

Let me make it clear once more:

Susannah accused President Obama of being a traitor and a racist, and has dissembled each time I've asked her to prove this.

She then behaves like a typical guilty person who refuses to accept responsiblity for her statements, and attempts to blame me for her own words. And she then calls me a nut case.

Run away, Susannah, as you wish, but your words, not mine, are there in the blogsphere for all to judge.

It is you, not I, who used calumny, posted false charges and misrepresentations maliciously calculated to harm another's (The President of the US's) reputation.

I'm done with this too, Susannah, and hope you learn that throwing accusation around, as you did, has consequences--the least of which is forcing you to understand that even on the internet, it is NOT okay to slander people.

RepublicanGirl said...

Susannah Said".. I'm disconnecting from this thread b/c I have a life to live (unlike others, apparently) & I've just had enough.

I will not be back here, but I will continue to speak - freely & loudly."

Susannah has FINALLY seen the light..
Thank You Susannah .. Shaw has been put in her place.. Great !

bluepitbull said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bluepitbull said...

Wow, James. Normally we have what Shaw likes to call 'civil discourse' on here, but seems incapable of practicing what she preaches.

I guess I'll take my business elsewhere, as well.

Shaw Kenawe said...

bluepitbull writes this:

"obama is most likely a product of his environment. A revolutionary, radical, bill ayers, jeremiah wright, and crazy mom marrying anyone that doesn't take American values seriously. Since all of that is true, we can draw that conclusion. He certainly didn't stop his racist buddy Atty Gen eric (America is a nation of cowards) holder when he dropped the pending case against black panthers intimidating voters by brandishing clubs.

You [Shaw K.] have no objectivity in any of this."

And he wrote this:

"What exactly did he [Obama] contribute to hizbollah being voted out? Oh that's right that's you're opinion. I see you're trying to teach all of us stupid hick conservatives a lesson.

Well, happy starbucks novel writer, let me tell you something about asymmetric warfare..."

And this gem:

"You libs are the same as terrorists. You scream and scream your revolutionary mantras and then when you get in trouble you use the American system as cover. Pick one."

And then bluepitbull says this about Shaw Kenawe:

"Wow, James. Normally we have what Shaw likes to call 'civil discourse' on here, but seems incapable of practicing what she preaches."

Mr. bluepitbull is offended because I said we can't take him seriously anymore because he said liberals are like terrorists.

Imagine if someone had said conservatives are like terrorists.

The only personally offensive thing I wrote on this comment site was that I said bluepitbull's STATEMENT was idiotic.

And I stand by that.

James can decide if I've been uncivil.

I tried to get Susannah to back up her statement that Mr. Obama was a traitor and a racist.

That is all.

bluepitbull said...

Which part are you saying isn't true in between all of your insults?

Are you saying he has no connection to Jeremiah Wright? Is it his connection to Bill Ayers? Is it that his mother went around marrying misogynist foreigners? Clue me in here.

Oh...wait...Everyone is picking on the guy you have a gushing crush on, Shaw, and you can't take it that they are stating facts.

Perhaps it was your claim that obama had something, anything to do with Hizbollah in the elections? I'm still waiting to hear from you on that.

Maybe it's your hypocrisy about civil discourse.

What about your personal attacks on one of our fellow bloggers where you threatened her? What exactly are you going to do to her? Call the State Department? Please do so that they can have a good laugh.

This love affair you've convinced yourself of with the president isn't real.

MOSTLY KIND AND GENTLE TRUTH101 said...

Obama makes an outstanding speech. A pro western government elected in Lebanon. The righties are still pissed off. Would you guys be happier if we all thanked Reagan for this good news?

I Ain't Got No Blog said...

Is this April Fools Day or did I read Shaw say that she "Was done here"?
Or maybe she is just too dumb to comprehend what that means! Reader warning: Looks like Shaw is taking off the kid gloves. I seem to sense a very angry "women" here.
I also sense some unfounded accusations and using undesirable uncivilized language coming our way.

Pitbull in the Red/white/and blue corner...And Shaw in the "Other" corner.
P.S. Do not forget to turn on subtitles. Sometimes Shaw is a bit hard to understand..

Shaw Kenawe said...

For IAGNB & bluepitbull:

"Utinam barbari alum tuum invadant!"

bluepitbull said...

So because we don't agree with your nutty ideology, you use a latin curse? How long did the google search take on that one?

Shaw, you are an ass. No one cursed you, but when you can't think of any way to refute logic, you lapse into latin, lol.

When your head starts spinning around and you start puking green, take a picture since it represents your personality.

bluepitbull said...

So to you, Marbhfháisc ort!

Shaw Kenawe said...

Again, bluepitbull has to copy Shaw Kenawe, because he has no original thoughts himself.

"Always a follower; never a leade!" --Bluepitbull's motto

LOL!

bluepitbull said...

I thought I was irrelevant. Apparently I'm not since you continue dialogue with me.

Shaw, I'm married. So get the hint, there can never be an 'us', OK?

James' Muse said...

Ok so wow. I don't check my blog for a few days and I go from 5 comments to 45!

Um, I think it's all been said here. I'm just not sure exactly what. So, yeah. I'm gonna come up with a new post now.

Dave Miller said...

James, this is number 47 on the comment thread. I hope the group decides to chime in and get you to the elusive 50!

I'm Not Going To Take It Any More said...

Wow, who is this "Shaw" and where's the Camel that she she rode in on!

James' Muse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James' Muse said...

You mean the same camel that birthed you?