tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post348736499749022591..comments2023-07-24T06:06:02.896-07:00Comments on Thoughts from a loyal GOP dissenter.: Harvard Professor plays race card, gets arrested UPDATEDJames' Musehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-16176523766447360082009-07-26T09:32:35.066-07:002009-07-26T09:32:35.066-07:00Fair enough. You have to admit, though she carrie...Fair enough. You have to admit, though she carries an abnormal amount of water for the prez with no real logic.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-8386679288229369072009-07-25T12:29:08.674-07:002009-07-25T12:29:08.674-07:00Shaw isn't the subject of this post, blue. I d...Shaw isn't the subject of this post, blue. I don't like it when commenters try to hijack my posts into attacks on shaw.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-26785123314884104782009-07-24T17:45:17.831-07:002009-07-24T17:45:17.831-07:00But James, Obama is a radical and a racist. He do...But James, Obama is a radical and a racist. He doesn't even try to cover it up given his company.<br /><br />As for attacking Shaw....she has alot to answer for that she can't and has done plenty of attacking herself.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-31381044967461138862009-07-24T13:13:17.121-07:002009-07-24T13:13:17.121-07:00I think this sums up my thoughts on the matter pre...I think this sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well:<br /><br />http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/07/too_big_a_taboo.phpJen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-11973723388364091782009-07-24T11:51:46.193-07:002009-07-24T11:51:46.193-07:00Lia, please don't attack Shaw, especially here...Lia, please don't attack Shaw, especially here.<br /><br />As to Obama, I don't think he was being racist. As he said, he was just backing his friend. I don't think it was racist; I think Obama, as President, shouldn't criticize Cambridge's finest without knowing the facts.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-81664811368652836732009-07-24T11:29:50.825-07:002009-07-24T11:29:50.825-07:00Why does Shaw ALWAYS take the side of Obama? To h...Why does Shaw ALWAYS take the side of Obama? To her he can't do anything wrong.<br />If she can't see that he was wrong in this case then she must be wearing blinders.<br />I am a female. What happened in Cambridge happened to me in Houston, TX. Two armed police officers were at my door due to a false alarm. They were not friendly and their hands did not move from their sides. I was smart. I kept my mouth shut dis and said what they wanted me too and the situation was over.<br />Mr. Gates is using what should be just another day in the life of a police officer to spew out the very racism he claims to be trying to abolish. Not only is he a racist, but he is also an opportunist. As for Mr. Obama, this is just another example of his "agenda".<br />Sgt Crowley did his job and did it right. Had a black officer responded to the call, I would be willing to bet that Prof Gates would have produced his identification and had a good laugh about it. Instead, he became belligerent. There are 2 racists here: Prof Gates, who I suspect spews his vileness in his classroom, and, the Obama who is the President of the United States and should know better than to say"the arrest was handled "stupidly".<br />Obama,along with his friends have been showing us lately that they all need Anger Management! <br />Enough already with this "racial bull crap" He is showing more racism than anyone else is!Liahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06740431920600515967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-20076630165136423892009-07-24T11:28:04.601-07:002009-07-24T11:28:04.601-07:00We don't know what the laws are in the Cambrid...We don't know what the laws are in the Cambridge area. If something needs to change, Gates should talk to the legislature. <br /><br />But as for police reports: legally, they are exponentially more credible than the accused, especially his lawyer, and especially when he is trying to bring race into this and sue for racism. It's bs, plain and simple. The more we get into this, the more ridiculous Gates looks, saying he's going to sue. Comes down to money, doesn't it? <br /><br />The police are backing him, saying he acted according to the law. Police officers, again, are not social workers or counselors. They are <b>law enforcement</b> and Gates wasn't cooperating, and was harassing. Next time, maybe they shouldn't respond to a break in at his residence? Or if they do, take them at their word that its their house?<br /><br />And btw, according to the police report (from multiple officers) Gates at first refused to ID himself.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-12456412134671449152009-07-24T11:22:14.767-07:002009-07-24T11:22:14.767-07:00Really? Opinions are out on the whole thing, Jen....Really? Opinions are out on the whole thing, Jen.<br /><br />As to your earlier comment about the professor risking his 'great career' as an academic, nah, not so much. Some people assume that with education comes maturity and it just isn't so.<br /><br />I think WEB DuBois would be rolling over in his grave right now to see this crap happening. He was a true educator and not a victim. He taught his students to be self sufficient. What is Prof. Gates demonstrating as an academic leader? That you can scream 'racism!!!' and get instant coverage if you are a minority. <br /><br />Liberals continue down the path of victimization of minorities. As long as minorities allow themselves to play the victim (and not all do so) this country will remain polarized. Not because of the Republican party who are constantly touted as the party of racist fat white males, but the democrats.<br /><br />Professor Gates will get his come-uppance at a later time, I'm sure. It may not be in this life, but his day will come.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-20584958899268303222009-07-24T10:50:01.599-07:002009-07-24T10:50:01.599-07:00Unless you can show that an officer has a history ...<i>Unless you can show that an officer has a history of racial profiling, you should take his word and report of what happened. </i><br /><br />I don't think that follows. I assume that the officer's report presents events in the light most favorable to him, just as I assume that the statement released by Gates' lawyer presents events in the light most favorable to Gates.<br /><br />That said, even going solely by what's in the police report, I think he handled it badly. I also think Gates handled it badly, but he's not the one given a lot of power by the state and trusted to use it appropriately.<br /><br />bluepitbull: both the police report and Gates' lawyer's statement agree that Gates produced his Harvard ID. The latter also says that Gates produced his driver's license.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-32401132034596127642009-07-24T08:43:55.393-07:002009-07-24T08:43:55.393-07:00Jen: The problem I am seeing here is that people a...Jen: The problem I am seeing here is that people are automatically taking the citizen's side.<br /><br />Unless you can show that an officer has a history of racial profiling, you should take his word and report of what happened. This officer has a stellar record, even campaigning and teaching classes about not racially profiling.<br /><br />Then some black guy accuses him of racism, and suddenly he's wrong? I'm sorry, but a cop's credibility is much more than some citizen upset about his arrest. Police officers legally have more credibility, as they should. They have to pass exhaustive background screening, training, and judgement screening. I know, because I'm in that process. <br /><br />Until a cop screws up, they have more credibility than a cranky old professor. There were witnesses to this you know. The police report has witnesses corroborating the officer's story.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-79784157283237712342009-07-23T20:01:09.496-07:002009-07-23T20:01:09.496-07:00Um, no he didn't. So give that argument up. ...Um, no he didn't. So give that argument up. The police didn't do anything wrong.<br /><br />The guy clearly had an agenda. <br /><br />I do like the way you debate, though. So much nicer than most of the others.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-66633810419381373092009-07-23T19:34:31.508-07:002009-07-23T19:34:31.508-07:00"Jen, you don't really think that he acte..."Jen, you don't really think that he acted in good faith, do you?"<br /><br />On the one hand, there is the possibility that this internationally renowned scholar ginned up a confrontation with the local police department, a confrontation which threatens to overshadow the entire body of work that he's devoted his life to.<br /><br />On the other, there is the possibility that he was tired from a long trip, irritated that his door wasn't working, irritated further at having to prove that he wasn't breaking in to his own home, and mindful of systemic discrimination against African-Americans in law enforcement, and lost his head as a result.<br /><br />I find the latter perfectly adequate to explain what seems to have transpired.<br /><br />And he did produce his ID.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-53244643352572927662009-07-23T19:02:54.048-07:002009-07-23T19:02:54.048-07:00Jen, you don't really think that he acted in g...Jen, you don't really think that he acted in good faith, do you? He could have easily produced his ID.<br /><br />I really think that cops do well at diffusing situations on the whole. There are people, Jen, that cannot be placated no matter the situation. Perhaps the professor has other problems, but displaying them in public show a lack of maturity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-75131720968463863452009-07-23T18:49:17.089-07:002009-07-23T18:49:17.089-07:00bluepitbull, if your argument rests on you somehow...bluepitbull, if your argument rests on you somehow knowing that Gates acted in bad faith, then there's nothing I can say to counter that.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-57188453439538797072009-07-23T14:58:05.058-07:002009-07-23T14:58:05.058-07:00oops, put do instead to 'due'.
Jen, if yo...oops, put do instead to 'due'.<br /><br />Jen, if you think the cops could have done it better, become a cop. I'll bet your outlook would change in a week. I've been on enough ride-alongs to know that I don't have the patience for some of the unbelievable crap I saw perpetrated by ALL races.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-64771107295584129562009-07-23T14:55:43.883-07:002009-07-23T14:55:43.883-07:00Jen, that's a blank comment you made about dif...Jen, that's a blank comment you made about diffusing a situation. The guy had it in his head that he was going to create civil unrest, period.<br /><br />You cannot diffuse every situation. The professor had an agenda which probably revolved around selling this story and making law enforcement look bad at the same time.<br /><br />Tao, that was one of the funniest things that you've said so far. It doesn't have anything to do with lowering taxes in California, but that the govenator and the dems can't balance a budget there do to social spending which is rampant in that state thanks to people like you, tao. Oh, wait, that's right....by your own admission you don't vote.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014273634505096181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-60466230937654239862009-07-23T13:19:33.022-07:002009-07-23T13:19:33.022-07:00Regardless of our disagreement; the point remains ...Regardless of our disagreement; the point remains that Professor Gates unfoundedly claimed racism.<br /><br />If the Police need reform, laws and such should be passed. <br /><br />But a white cop shouldn't fear that everytime he arrests a black man that the world will accuse him of racism.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-88018276039581392882009-07-23T12:26:10.491-07:002009-07-23T12:26:10.491-07:00in your job and in my job, we don't get shot a...<i>in your job and in my job, we don't get shot at.</i><br /><br />I didn't read anything about a weapon in the report.<br /><br />I think that you and I probably just have fundamentally different views of the appropriate job of police, which won't be resolved in a blog comment thread.<br /><br />I assert that when the addition of police to a peaceful situation results in a disturbance and an arrest for at least a pseudo-crime, that's prima facie evidence that the police involved did a bad job.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-69599997273219388762009-07-23T11:40:49.982-07:002009-07-23T11:40:49.982-07:00Yes, Jen, but in your job and in my job, we don...Yes, Jen, but in your job and in my job, we don't get shot at.<br /><br />I don't mean to be condescending, but according to the report, he did try and give Gates his badge number, but Gates only got angrier.<br /><br />As for the riot thing, there were many people around getting concerned about Gates. Maybe not a riot, but a disturbance.<br /><br />Why should an officer have to let some man scream at him for a while, following him? If someone is screaming at me on the phone at work, I'll disconnect the call. <br /><br />If you scream at a judge at a summons, you get arrested. Judges and cops are all part of the judicial process, and screaming at them unendingly is disturbing the peace, and that is a crime. <br /><br />If the officer lets Gates do it there, in a "rich" neighborhood, shouldn't he then let someone in a project do the same? Scream at him? Follow him? Maybe actually start a riot? <br /><br />Would I have arrested him? Probably not. But should cops have the authority to arrest an unruly person who fails to calm down? Yes.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-20066536727556440452009-07-23T11:20:32.982-07:002009-07-23T11:20:32.982-07:00"They are to find the quickest, most efficien..."They are to find the quickest, most efficient manner to enforce laws and keep the peace."<br /><br />Given that Gates was a perfectly peaceful, law-abiding citizen until the police showed up, I think they failed in this objective.<br /><br />"Maybe stir up a riot?"<br /><br />Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe that this was a probable outcome? If not, why bring it up?<br /><br />"Should he have held hands with him and sang kum-bay-ah?"<br /><br />That's unnecessarily condescending.<br /><br />Would it have killed him to let the guy blow off steam at him for a few minutes? To say "Sir, I understand why this is upsetting for you"? To thank him for producing his identification? To write down his name and badge number, and perhaps the name and phone number of his immediate superior as well, so that Gates could take up the complaint with him?<br /><br />Those are just examples off the top of my head; I'm not a trained professional or anything. But again, people in other jobs have to handle angry people all the time without getting to arrest them. Why shouldn't we expect the police to have that ability?<br /><br />I think this was an arrest of choice, not an arrest of necessity. It disturbs me that police get to arrest people for yelling at them, and that others just say, well, what did you expect, he was a jerk to a cop? It's authoritarian.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-6821827623686692872009-07-23T10:58:13.362-07:002009-07-23T10:58:13.362-07:00Tell me, Jen R, what should he have done instead w...Tell me, Jen R, what should he have done instead when an adult cannot control himself? <br /><br />Let him cause a scene? Maybe stir up a riot? <br /><br />Should he have held hands with him and sang kum-bay-ah? Police Officers are not there to calm everyone down. They don't have the time to be everyone's personal counselor. They are to find the quickest, most efficient manner to enforce laws and keep the peace. <br /><br />They are in authority, and Gates couldn't handle it. He just kept getting more hysterical. He should have known better.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-8808217767817212192009-07-23T10:40:51.888-07:002009-07-23T10:40:51.888-07:00"Twice he asked him to calm down."
I..."Twice he asked him to calm down."<br /><br />I'm talking about conflict resolution strategies, not giving orders. (When does telling an angry person to calm down ever help?)<br /><br />If that's the best that the officer could do to defuse the situation, then I don't think that's in the best interest of protecting the public.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-67708512130387510092009-07-23T10:19:17.054-07:002009-07-23T10:19:17.054-07:00Sounds like he did try to de-escalate, Jen. Twice ...Sounds like he did try to de-escalate, Jen. Twice he asked him to calm down. There are two different officer's reports there. He followed him outside, <i>yelling</i>, and causing a disruption in the neighborhood, which is against the law. He was causing concern on the part of the neighbors and other officers, so the officer made a judgement call and thought that the best way to stop the disturbance would be arrest the offender after he'd already asked him to calm down TWICE.<br /><br />Gates was belligerent and harrassing. The more that comes out, the more Gates is coming across as the racist one.James' Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575769532441311670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-21572138293277033322009-07-23T10:10:12.877-07:002009-07-23T10:10:12.877-07:00According to the police report, Gates followed the...According to the police report, Gates followed the officer outside <i>after the officer said that he would talk to Gates outside if Gates had more questions</i>. So it's a little hard for me to see that as harassment, as another comment termed it. And that's assuming the police report is 100% accurate.<br /><br />"getting in the cops face, can cause problems"<br /><br />This is very vague. What constitutes "getting in the cop's face"? Yelling at him, or was there some kind of physical confrontation that is not indicated in the police report?<br /><br />bluepitbull, I know I would feel much safer with officers who knew how to de-escalate tense situations. I'm baffled that you'd disagree.Jen Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247886185829008699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1720893923211069687.post-52966278760270343332009-07-23T09:59:24.803-07:002009-07-23T09:59:24.803-07:00Tao "Can't help but wonder if the lack of...Tao "Can't help but wonder if the lack of law enforcement has something to do with lower taxes and less government..."<br /><br />Probably not, as the police are one of the necessary functions. However, some politicians (like Michigan's governor) sometimes face tough budget decisions, and instead of cutting waste and kickbacks to cronies, they cut the police first. <br /><br />Oddly enough, $100 million of this waste is for a new State Police post that the state police insist they do not want or need. But the guy set to build it (in a no-bid contract) is a major campaign contributor to the governor.<br /><br />Governments all over the country have situations like this. "Less taxes" does not mean "less police" unless you have a corrupt political leader with bad priorities.<br /><br /><br />------------<br />James: Gates is coming across like a belligerent a**hole. And a racist one, too. Do you think he would have played the race card if the police officer had been black? No. His decision to play the race card was based on the officer's skin color.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.com